Curse

JYX · Jun 15, 2005, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Buying low and selling high? You need lots of patience and time to even have an understanding of what values are low and high for a given item. I've been hearing amazing tales of people gaining fabulous wealth by buying low and selling high, but I'm not sure if its just me...I ran around for 20 minutes yesterday trying this out, selling a gold shield and a ebon longbow of fortitude for 2 gold. Nobody bought. That is ridiculous. Another thing is, there seems to be a stark contrast between the economies of the US and Europe, for a start sigils in europe still cost 100 plat, whereas in the US I've heard sigils are getting quite cheap.

After my awful experience with selling (I was trying to sell in ascalon city btw) I decided to try my hand at farming. I changed my secondary to monk and took the appropriate smiting skills in order to make a run on Riverside. I cleared out near half portion of the map of Justicars and other white mantle. In the process...I made...200 gold. For 20 minutes work.

even if I wanted to buy low and sell high...I gotta start with some money to work with right? I sir...am poor beyond all reason. I haven't bought anything since reaching Droknar's forge a few weeks ago...yet...I have a grand total of 2.5 plat. I want to be competetive in PvP, I want to get my guild fighting. But I need vigor runes and I need a Guild hall. Clearing out half of riverside solo only yielded 200 gold, bartering yielded nothing (i'm still shocked nobody wanted to buy a gold shield and a purple bow for 2 gold)...where am I meant to get those things from? Sigil is slightly easier...log in at a seriously late/random time...gets you into HoH straight away.

...oh yeah, I haven't had a rune drop in weeks

Arothian · Jun 15, 2005, 02:53 PM // 14:53

I easily get around 25k by just going through the missions like normal up to the Forge. As long as you aren't buying the armor at every spot, only when you need to and its a good upgrade, and you are selling some of your items you get from drops for some good gold, and not to the traders.

JYX · Jun 15, 2005, 03:01 PM // 15:01

I didn't buy any armour at all until I reached Droknar's forge. It was painful but I did it...one stoning used to kill me. Also I must be the unluckiest guy ever...half a mission soloed and only 200 gold? This is despite killing all the mantle which I wasn't supposed to do. Simply going through the missions...yields...crappy results

Creston · Jun 15, 2005, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrak

This game is meant for playing with a party. To me, solo quest runs and restarts after each death are just another form of farming. I always play with a party and have never had a problem with drops in long quest runs.

Only people who are farming or have a farming mentality are crying about the patch changes. Prior to the patch, these are the same people who possess several hundred platinums to screw up the game economy for others who are not farming. They are crying after the patch because they don't have the same kind of cash flow to screw up the economy with anymore.

And for those who use bots, besides the bannings, this is a perfect way to stop them. I wouldn't be surprised if all the people who cry about this patch are farmers and botters.

That's right kid, only your opinion counts, everyone else is an idiot. Way to bring something to the discussion here champ. Your level of comprehension is astounding.

Creston

codemonkey · Jun 15, 2005, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everous

Buying low and selling high? You need lots of patience and time to even have an understanding of what values are low and high for a given item. I've been hearing amazing tales of people gaining fabulous wealth by buying low and selling high, but I'm not sure if its just me...I ran around for 20 minutes yesterday trying this out, selling a gold shield and a ebon longbow of fortitude for 2 gold. Nobody bought. That is ridiculous. Another thing is, there seems to be a stark contrast between the economies of the US and Europe, for a start sigils in europe still cost 100 plat, whereas in the US I've heard sigils are getting quite cheap.

After my awful experience with selling (I was trying to sell in ascalon city btw) I decided to try my hand at farming. I changed my secondary to monk and took the appropriate smiting skills in order to make a run on Riverside. I cleared out near half portion of the map of Justicars and other white mantle. In the process...I made...200 gold. For 20 minutes work.

even if I wanted to buy low and sell high...I gotta start with some money to work with right? I sir...am poor beyond all reason. I haven't bought anything since reaching Droknar's forge a few weeks ago...yet...I have a grand total of 2.5 plat. I want to be competetive in PvP, I want to get my guild fighting. But I need vigor runes and I need a Guild hall. Clearing out half of riverside solo only yielded 200 gold, bartering yielded nothing (i'm still shocked nobody wanted to buy a gold shield and a purple bow for 2 gold)...where am I meant to get those things from? Sigil is slightly easier...log in at a seriously late/random time...gets you into HoH straight away.

...oh yeah, I haven't had a rune drop in weeks

I had a lot of practice in the beta. It is an art to be honest

Reallistically you went about it the wrong way. Selling upgrade items, or weapons is the most difficult method.

It does, however, take patience. Here is an example:

common items: 10 - 12gp (usually 3 to 5gp less then trader). 10gp only if they buy a really lot of common items (30 hides, for instance)
rare items: 250gp solid. With the exception of leather squares and a few others now that the rare item trader deals them for 150gp.

I've also found it faster profit to sell such things as fur to the rare item trader if he buys for 290gp+. People echo WTB messages for fur @200gp which is not going to fly if people are smart about it because they can make more off the NPC's for some sales. This also goes for Monsterous eye's and rare items nobody calls out for (I sold one for 553gp to the rare item trader).

Common items is where you make your initial money stacks because you can sell in bulk, and probably have a ton from adventuring anyway. I usually promote my list "WTS: 8 steel, 40 iron, 10 scales, 90 cloth, 110 t. hides, 250 bones, 70 fibers, 200 dust" and wait for queries. Many will say 12gp is too high, but many of those will come back when they find you have what they need and they're sick of looking for someone to sell cheaper.

Others will say "I can buy it from the npc for less" when they want 2 of them.... to which I state "yeah, if you buy 10, you need 10?" then they buy from me

Once you have a bank roll you should purchase minor runes such as fire runes, wild. survival, swordsmanship, marksmenship, air, soul reaping, etc. I shy away from water & beast mastery because they take to long to sell.

You can usually find some runes to buy at 50gp up to 200gp (others you skip). Then you can resell them for 400gp or whatever value you want (if you buy for 50gp you have some room to negotiate, but buying for 350gp you have very little room).

I've also made contacts with people that like certain items (purple dye for instance) and can usually make an instant sale.

Also a good trick, when people are looking for 10 rare items like leather squares, and you only have 3 to sell... tell them you can get them for them, ask what they'd like to pay or offer to sell them to them for 120gp. Then hunt the districts and buy up all of them for 100gp or less. People want to adventure, not trade so they'll often sell them just to get them out of they're inventory. Then you get a collection and head back to the guy that wants to buy them (he's probably working his 15K armor or something high so he's got needs). You offload them all for 120gp and make some dough, and it probably took ya 10 minute to collect the items for the guy. He just doesn't know how to district surf

Note about upgrade items: If I have nothing else I may try to sell them, otherwise I sell my other warez and when I see a "WTB" message for upgrade items I sell them on a case by case basis, but do not promote them as "WTS" messages unless I'm desperate. Same goes for unique items that you are having a tough sell with.

Remember to be polite, and except negitiation when it fits (not with common items usually). If you want to sell your steel for 250gp but are having a rough night and a guy offers to buy 2, but for 220gp each then its probably worth your time. Or offer "230gp would work for me" and get a little extra dough. If the player is willing to negotiate down, they probably started very low, and you can up them a little.

NOTE: If you want to buy low and someone is selling something but says "offeer?" rather then a price then they a) have no clue what its worth or b) hope you offer real real high. I usually start real real low. Example:

"I'll buy your rune of minor fire, how much"
"offer?"
"50gp?"
"its worth at least 100gp man..."
"110gp then?"
"ok".

Now you go and sell it for 400gp unless you know everyone wants it (or the rune trader has a higher price). If you can buy a minor fire rune from the trader for 800gp up your price from 400gp to 600gp (so the player feels they're getting a deal because its 200gp less then the rune trader). They get 200gp off, you get 490gp profit...works out for everyone. Even the guy that got his 110gp and is already back out on his quest(s).

CodeMonkey

hydrak · Jun 15, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by osfoxtrot

Enough said, you havnt even finished the game, havnt even ascended i bet, havnt even made another character and you think that you have all the answers to a portion of the game *you havent even seen*

After 30 hours, my drops finally came back. After about 8 uw trips (that i paid for, at a cost of 8k since i like being a nice guy)
I came back with

1 glob of ectoplasm
1 smiting staff
1 holy rod
1 vial of yellow die
5-6 demonic remains

and there are people on this specific forum that went with me and not only can varify but did just as well themselves.

Oh and hydrak, just venture outside a couple portals. Its good for you.

Hold alt, and on quite a few you can see chests and barrels within walking distance. Do I really need to explain how a macro works or did you graduate 3rd grade? If you have never flown an airplane you better not tell a pilot how to fly. If you have never gone to a collector/uw/fissure/dreadnaughts drift/anywhere outside a portal -

Dont tell me how to play.

Again, I must say that you seem to be a guy who like to make wrong assumptions and speak nonsense.

I don't know what you guys are crying about. To me the drop is better after the patch. Last night, I had another 1-hour trip to the forgemaster in FoW with my 5 other guildmates: 2 warriors/smiters, 2 monks, 1 ele/mo and me (ele/ranger). We got 8 obsidian shards, a bunch of collectibles, 1 ruby, several shadow bows including a rare one. Provided that I don't play much when my guildmates are not logged on, we do consistently have good drops in fissure of woe and underworld.

So yeah, if your farming and botting days are over, don't cry about it here and giving newcomers the wrong impressions.

Reiden Argrock · Jun 15, 2005, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Well after reading this, I have once again reminded myself why I would rather play the game rather than read about if from people who only want to be 'uber' and not have to spend time getting there, and think they know more about how to make a good game, better than the dev's who made the one these 'players' spent their money on.

To start with, I have 1 lvl 20 char w/e, I have made/deleted over 10 other chars, I usually get bored with them around LA, empty out all their money and items, delete, then go back to my warrior. I have max attributes, have been to every town, I think i'm only missing 1 or 2 warrior skills, have beaten all the missions w/ bonus and have completed all secondary profession missions in CD, and am still not bored with the story or just going out with a few henchmen to see how what new changes have been made to the scenery.

I HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED ANY LACK OF DROPS OR NO DROPS AT ALL. Because I am just now getting friends to play the game, I am going back to replay missions with them, so I have in fact, played through all the missions several times, and have still never experienced any drop problems.

Alot of you seem to think that because someone run's through a zone and maybe dies once, gets ressed to shrine, then runs back to where they died, is a farmer. You are morons, farming is the repetitive act of going somewhere, killing large numbers of mobs quickly, grabbing loot, then doing it again.

As for nerfed drops, I have never gotten a Superior rune, from BWE in october, till now, And I have no problem with that. Through my adventures, I have made around 100k in total, I've purchased very few items, 3 pieces of 15k armor, and one axe, which I no longer use anyway. Possibly a few runes, that I probably don't have anymore.

(I've typed this next section a few times and it still doesn't sound right, just keep that in mind while reading, thanks.)

IF a-net did in fact nerf the drops as everyone is saying, which I believe is possible even though I have never experienced it, I still don't see what the problem is. For pve or pvp, by nerfing drops, it extends the time it will take an rpg'r to max out his char, and for pvp, it will make those who actually work at the game to acquire these items, that much better, and more deserving. Now many believe that strategy will beat out equipment any day, and I agree completely, but get a well strategized team outfitted with the uber equipment, and they'll never be beaten except by others who have the same devotion. and it will weed out all those NEW GUILD RECRUITING, "NOOBS R US", WE HAVE CAPES AND GUILD HALL, JOIN NOW.
Nerfing drops will provide those people who actually play, and dedicate themselves to the game, with the chance to be recognized for their hard work and their skill.

As for the 15k armor, and buying superior runes from vendor now, There are many ways to make money, that the game suggests in a subtle manner. Any one who has ever checked their 'white' items, knows that the merchants tend to rip you off big time, so a way to increase your money many times over would be to identify everything before selling it. Merchants buy for the item gold value, unless you identify it, you'll never know how much the item is really worth, and I've researched this and there have been many times, where I would of lost up to 100g on one item, enough to buy another ID kit.
So always identify items.
Another implemented money maker is the supply and demand that a-net has implemented. Mainly with rare crafting materials, there are so many people playing this game that you can always find some sucker willing to sell their crafting materials, so if you have a little money, you can make more, spend money to make money kind of thing. Buy those common materials, go find a materials trader in the explorable areas, an easy one is right outside of fort ranik, convert your common materials to rare, then go back to town and sell to the material merchants, and remember that the rare and common merchant have different prices, usually selling individual rare's will generate a bigger profit then selling stacks.
Wood to parchment is usually a high profit item because parchment is required for all those tattoos, and the merchants stock is usually low.

As for all your runes and weapon upgrades, If you spent the time you waste posting here, playing the game instead, I'll bet you'd be doing a little bit better. Only reason I'm posting is because I'm at work waiting for an assignment

.

And as far is upset customers, even if everyone who posted on this website quit playing, I doubt it would make much of a dent in the player base, except I think their would be a little less crying in game. Which would be nice.

Creston · Jun 15, 2005, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

I HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED ANY LACK OF DROPS OR NO DROPS AT ALL. Because I am just now getting friends to play the game, I am going back to replay missions with them, so I have in fact, played through all the missions several times, and have still never experienced any drop problems.

Well, if you read through the whole thread, it is being speculated / hinted at that the drops are fine if you venture out with PEOPLE in your party.

It's only when you're solo'ing (which I'm fine with, I solo now with my W/Mo because it's fun and a decent challenge, but I have no problem with them nerfing that to stop the botters / farmers) OR PLAYING WITH HENCHMEN that your drops go sour.

The WITH HENCHMEN part is what I have a problem with. I like to explore, I'm uberly anal about having the entire map showing with every character. Good luck in trying to find a group that just wants to go walk around Dragon's Gullet for the sheer heck of it. (ie, ain't gonna happen).

So then I take out the henchies and trample around with them for fun, why am I being punished as if I'm a farmer / botter? Oh wait, because hydrak says I am.

Creston

Algren Cole · Jun 15, 2005, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creston

Well, if you read through the whole thread, it is being speculated / hinted at that the drops are fine if you venture out with PEOPLE in your party.

It's only when you're solo'ing (which I'm fine with, I solo now with my W/Mo because it's fun and a decent challenge, but I have no problem with them nerfing that to stop the botters / farmers) OR PLAYING WITH HENCHMEN that your drops go sour.

The WITH HENCHMEN part is what I have a problem with. I like to explore, I'm uberly anal about having the entire map showing with every character. Good luck in trying to find a group that just wants to go walk around Dragon's Gullet for the sheer heck of it. (ie, ain't gonna happen).

So then I take out the henchies and trample around with them for fun, why am I being punished as if I'm a farmer / botter? Oh wait, because hydrak says I am.

Creston

so...the botters now link two accounts to eachother and the two bots party up and go farm....great work areaNet *thumbsup*....you're fighting a losing battle...areanet will ALWAYS fail against hackers/cheaters/bots....but atleast they keep trying.

Creston · Jun 15, 2005, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

so...the botters now link two accounts to eachother and the two bots party up and go farm....great work areaNet *thumbsup*....you're fighting a losing battle...areanet will ALWAYS fail against hackers/cheaters/bots....but atleast they keep trying.

Actually I didn't even think of that.
This is true, however Anet would at least get two accounts worth of money out of that botter, then

In the end, you can't stop the gold farmers, the guys that do this for a living. You just can't. If they're clever enough to come up with a bot to make money in this game in the first place (which seems pretty good programming to me, purely in the technical sense), they'll be clever enough to come up with a way to circumvent whatever it is Anet is doing. Now they're opening chests. It took them all of what, half a day to create that new bot? In the meantime, there are quite a few people genuinely disappointed in the current drops. And the drops HAVE been altered, I'm pretty sure that NOT everyone who's posted here about it since last week has been smoking the crackpipe.

Just because it hasn't happened to you, doesn't mean it's not happening.

So far in Old Ascalon with my warrior, the drops have seemed okay, probably a little less blue than normal, but that's random chance.
I'm convinced that the drops are set PER AREA, and that it's just the popular farming areas that have been nerfed.

However, those farming areas are also where normal people would go out and kill some critters to try to find something decent. Isn't that within the normal gameplay? If I WANT to go outside for an hour and randomly kill mobs in the hopes of finding something decent, why is that considered to be AGAINST Anet's Preferred Way of Playing? And yet, it's been nerfed (in those areas).

Good luck trying to get your armor from the collectors in the desert now, people. Might take you a week. :|

Creston

Algren Cole · Jun 15, 2005, 05:39 PM // 17:39

maybe my extensive technical background makes it easier for me to see this....maybe the fact that it took me 7 hours to break the algorithm used to encrypt the cd-keys for this game....maybe it's the fact that it would take about 45 minutes to write any type of hack/cheat/bot I could possibly think of for this game.......but someone other than Creston has to realize that ArenaNet is fighting a losing battle. They'll never stop the people that want to cheat...there really isn't a reason to try, all they're doing is ruining the game for the people that WANT to play.

codemonkey · Jun 15, 2005, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

maybe my extensive technical background makes it easier for me to see this....maybe the fact that it took me 7 hours to break the algorithm used to encrypt the cd-keys for this game....maybe it's the fact that it would take about 45 minutes to write any type of hack/cheat/bot I could possibly think of for this game.......but someone other than Creston has to realize that ArenaNet is fighting a losing battle. They'll never stop the people that want to cheat...there really isn't a reason to try, all they're doing is ruining the game for the people that WANT to play.

AH, the reoccuring "you can never win, why bother" post again?

1. Speeding is going to happen on the roads, I don't see why cops bother to try to stop me...

2. Breaking into a house with doors locked is easy, I just use the window. Why bother locking the doors at all?

3. Stealing from stores in the mall is easy if you use the back-hallways. Why bother with security cameras?

4. Its easy to take a rental car and just never bring it back. Why make me bother to pay for it?

See where I'm going with this? If you do nothing about an obvious problem, your just asking people to do wrong. ANet is not in the business of inviting hackers, and therefor they will work to thwart it at all costs. It may not work every time, or it may require you to get more creative each time you do it, but you stop it from being "accepted behavior" by working to stop it.

CodeMonkey

hydrak · Jun 15, 2005, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

so...the botters now link two accounts to eachother and the two bots party up and go farm....great work areaNet *thumbsup*....you're fighting a losing battle...areanet will ALWAYS fail against hackers/cheaters/bots....but atleast they keep trying.

Another piece of nonsense... If a party of 8 keep re-entering the same area and kill the same monsters over and over, then the drops will stop as well. The drops come normally if you adventure from one area to the next and so on. I doubt that botters and farmers will do this since only selected few monster groups have rewarding drops. The rest are too hard to kill for their rewards.

Reiden Argrock · Jun 15, 2005, 06:01 PM // 18:01

I guess I didn't mention that when I go exploring i'm with the henchies, and I still don't notice any great loss of drops different than before the patch. And ya, a few farmers get together, and then go farm, can't do anything about that, but what I think a-net is trying to do is limit the number of solo players that go out without hench, and kill massive amounts of mobs that drop high value items. and do this over and over. I don't think there is anyway to change the way people play, but they can alter the game to discourage this, and because I have not noticed any problems with the drops, i'm not gonna accuse a-net of not caring about it's players, I've seen more customer service, and player interaction from these guys, than I have from any online game in the past 6 years, maybe even put together.
So all I can say, is, Shutup and play the game, or don't, I don't really care, and I don't know why i keep posting, I hate forums, their so dumb.

Algren Cole · Jun 15, 2005, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by codemonkey

AH, the reoccuring "you can never win, why bother" post again?

1. Speeding is going to happen on the roads, I don't see why cops bother to try to stop me...

2. Breaking into a house with doors locked is easy, I just use the window. Why bother locking the doors at all?

3. Stealing from stores in the mall is easy if you use the back-hallways. Why bother with security cameras?

4. Its easy to take a rental car and just never bring it back. Why make me bother to pay for it?

See where I'm going with this? If you do nothing about an obvious problem, your just asking people to do wrong. ANet is not in the business of inviting hackers, and therefor they will work to thwart it at all costs. It may not work every time, or it may require you to get more creative each time you do it, but you stop it from being "accepted behavior" by working to stop it.

CodeMonkey

Society is bound by the laws of reality and the fact that there is a factor of "impossibility".....the internet is not. There is nothing that is impossible on the internet. there are no boundaries...no rules....nothing you can't do. You can stop people from speeding by enforcing the laws of speeding...striking fear in the eyes of those that think about speeding. The same thing for the rest of your examples. There is an element of fear "what if I get caught?" "what will the punishment be?"....these elements of social order don't exist in the realm of the internet.....you can't govern yourself the same way you do in real life. ArenaNET is fighting a battle they can't win.....at the very best they can delay the hackers/cheaters/botters for a few hours. very much the same way they delayed me from stealing the game for 7 hours by encrypting their CD-Keys....but like I said, nothing is imposible.

(yes, I did purchase the game...I simply wanted to see how long it would take me to steal it)

hydrak · Jun 15, 2005, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reiden Argrock

I guess I didn't mention that when I go exploring i'm with the henchies, and I still don't notice any great loss of drops different than before the patch. And ya, a few farmers get together, and then go farm, can't do anything about that, but what I think a-net is trying to do is limit the number of solo players that go out without hench, and kill massive amounts of mobs that drop high value items. and do this over and over. I don't think there is anyway to change the way people play, but they can alter the game to discourage this, and because I have not noticed any problems with the drops, i'm not gonna accuse a-net of not caring about it's players, I've seen more customer service, and player interaction from these guys, than I have from any online game in the past 6 years, maybe even put together.
So all I can say, is, Shutup and play the game, or don't, I don't really care, and I don't know why i keep posting, I hate forums, their so dumb.

Yeah, all the complainers in this thread are a bunch of botters and farmers who post their best nonsenses trying to point out the problem of nerfing in the latest patch. In fact, there isn't any problem at all of they play the game normally. To put it in a language so that most people here would understand, by "play the game normally", that means you don't bot or farm.

Algren Cole · Jun 15, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrak

Yeah, all the complainers in this thread are a bunch of botters and farmers who post their best nonsenses trying to point out the problem of nerfing in the latest patch. In fact, there isn't any problem at all of they play the game normally. To put it in a language so that most people here would understand, by "play the game normally", that means you don't bot or farm.

I don't bot or farm, I find a great deal of pleasure in playing the game and JUST playing the game. If I don't have enough gold or something then I don't have enough gold for something....my problem is with the lack of intelligence and proper "software delopment mentality" that ArenaNET has showcased.

hydrak · Jun 15, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I don't bot or farm, I find a great deal of pleasure in playing the game and JUST playing the game. If I don't have enough gold or something then I don't have enough gold for something....my problem is with the lack of intelligence and proper "software delopment mentality" that ArenaNET has showcased.

I find that the latest patch is the best anti-farming/botting implimentation ever when comparing GW to WoW or EQ.

Reiden Argrock · Jun 15, 2005, 06:30 PM // 18:30

ugh, don't mention those names

I have to go eat lunch soon...

Golgotha · Jun 15, 2005, 06:34 PM // 18:34

I don't know about you guys, but I've been getting a lot more drops. Granted, I don't farm and its just been going through the missions. Got two golds in the same mission last night, actually.